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Millions of Americans depend on public assistance programs to help pay for food and make ends meet. But it’s not always easy for them to manage the red tape required to keep those benefits. Bloomberg Businessweek contributor Bryce Covert joins this episode to discuss Code for America, which aims to make navigating government bureaucracies less of a hassle. We’ll also hear from Code For America’s program manager Genevieve Miller.

Read more: How Many People Does It Take for the Government to Send a Text?

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This episode was produced by: Supervising Producer: Vicki Vergolina, Senior Producer: Kathryn Fink, Producer: Rebecca Chaisson, Associate Producer: Sam Gebauer, Sound Design/Engineer: Gilda Garcia.