Brazil’s central bank chief said high levels of public debt are to blame for interest rates steady at a six-year high, countering President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva’s criticism of monetary policy and appeals for a rate cut.

If government debt were low, “the cost of money would be cheaper for everyone,” Roberto Campos Neto said during a TV interview with Brazil’s CNN.

Campos Neto said it’s not the central bank’s fault when the government issues a bond and pays yields of 6% above inflation, like Brazil did recently. “There is a risk that justifies the real interest rate is 6%,” he added.

President Lula has attacked the central bank and its chief since January, saying current rates are “absurd,” boost unemployment and don’t need to be at a benchmark 13.75% when there are no demand pressures. He has also said Campos Neto has “no commitment” to Brazil.

Read More: Brazil Inflation Slowdown Disappoints as Lula Eyes Rate Cuts

The central bank president countered that inflation in Brazil is partly driven by demand.

“We have a clear understanding of the demand components of the inflation and we can quantify what is the demand and where is this demand coming from,” he said.

The country’s annual inflation rate has plunged from last year’s high of over 12%, to near the targets of 3.25% for 2023 and 3% for 2024 — with a tolerance range of plus or minus 1.5 percentage points. Inflation eased back within the central bank’s tolerance range but at 4.18% it’s still higher than the goal.

“I don’t think it’s a good thing to criticize the institution and the arguments could be more technically elaborated,” Campos Neto said of Lula’s critiques. Still, the central bank has “no problem” with publicly debating rates, he added.

Campos Neto pointed to micro lending programs and other advancements, including digital payments like Pix, as proof of his commitment to the country’s economic growth and stability.